The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Yes, they are & water dries while salt washes off.
P5B - His Lordship
- Thread starter Spinakerr
- Start date
Spinakerr
New Member
Evening all,
I started this update yesterday, carefully exhibiting my delight at having a fully functional P5B in the summer sun and recent sojourns to the countryside. However, today a nasty dose of reality kicked in. Here goes...
Over the past few weeks His Lordship has been having all brakes overhauled and a new radiator from Guildford Rads. I went to pick it up from Nick Dunning & co last Sunday and was very happy; new discs, pads and calipers & rear shoes from John Wearing meant the car braked in a straight and without the recent alarming 'random corner binding' that was becoming a worry.
The new radiator was functioning well - Nick cleared the top manifold hose and all noises were positive. Were my days of getting hot under the collar at London traffic lights over? Absolutely - so far on summertime 'Needlewatch' it has not gone into the red. Thanks Nick!
The carbs had been balanced and setup by a local guru and the idle was near silent. Luckily no new parts were required, just a trained ear & nose. On the journey back to our capital the sun blazed down upon us and I opened the webasto. It was wonderful:
Over last week the P5B was out and about making up for lost time. Recently in Kew it helped jump a damsel in distress in her rather fetching champagne 618:
I also chanced upon a new front toolkit/picnic table/brandy decanter lid through the local P5 club:
All was well in the world of Rover. Today after a day's labour on my new acquisition (more on that later - it's Italian so be gentle) the greenery of Richmond park beckoned, and I decided to take the P5B for its usual lap of the park. So many dog walkers use the park for exercise it must also be known this is where several classic owners take their vehicles for an afternoon workout. Unfortunately selecting reverse became an issue getting this shot at the gate:
Not a problem (I cheerily remarked aloud), the BW35 has been fairly clunky since I have owned it. Nick also mentioned the fluid being slightly off - a rebuild will have to be on the cards sometime this year...
The P5B obviously heard me say this, as the gearbox promptly began missing forward gears and struggling to select. Terrible smells, smoke and irate shrieking followed. As I willed the car into a Kingston side street the remaining ATF liquid evacuated onto the exhaust. 'Sometime this year' had become 'Before my wheels turn again'. Blast.
ATF snail trail:
Luckily my 90 minute wait was punctuated with conversations and well-wishes. Several classic owners stopped to talk and offered all kinds of assistance. As the light faded I dug out the Zircon Blue touch-up kit and tightened a few hoses. The posit that the optimism of a classic car owner can be judged from the reading material he carries on board for breakdowns. I read the engine labels. The recovery gentlemen was previously a P5 owner and got me home safely, even helping with the extra hard labour to wheel it safely into the garage.
Obligatory recovery shot:
So - does anyone have a BW35 they would be willing to part with? I think I may need to have a good sleep before making any decisions - such are the vicissitudes of the classic hobby.
I started this update yesterday, carefully exhibiting my delight at having a fully functional P5B in the summer sun and recent sojourns to the countryside. However, today a nasty dose of reality kicked in. Here goes...
Over the past few weeks His Lordship has been having all brakes overhauled and a new radiator from Guildford Rads. I went to pick it up from Nick Dunning & co last Sunday and was very happy; new discs, pads and calipers & rear shoes from John Wearing meant the car braked in a straight and without the recent alarming 'random corner binding' that was becoming a worry.
The new radiator was functioning well - Nick cleared the top manifold hose and all noises were positive. Were my days of getting hot under the collar at London traffic lights over? Absolutely - so far on summertime 'Needlewatch' it has not gone into the red. Thanks Nick!
The carbs had been balanced and setup by a local guru and the idle was near silent. Luckily no new parts were required, just a trained ear & nose. On the journey back to our capital the sun blazed down upon us and I opened the webasto. It was wonderful:
Over last week the P5B was out and about making up for lost time. Recently in Kew it helped jump a damsel in distress in her rather fetching champagne 618:
I also chanced upon a new front toolkit/picnic table/brandy decanter lid through the local P5 club:
All was well in the world of Rover. Today after a day's labour on my new acquisition (more on that later - it's Italian so be gentle) the greenery of Richmond park beckoned, and I decided to take the P5B for its usual lap of the park. So many dog walkers use the park for exercise it must also be known this is where several classic owners take their vehicles for an afternoon workout. Unfortunately selecting reverse became an issue getting this shot at the gate:
Not a problem (I cheerily remarked aloud), the BW35 has been fairly clunky since I have owned it. Nick also mentioned the fluid being slightly off - a rebuild will have to be on the cards sometime this year...
The P5B obviously heard me say this, as the gearbox promptly began missing forward gears and struggling to select. Terrible smells, smoke and irate shrieking followed. As I willed the car into a Kingston side street the remaining ATF liquid evacuated onto the exhaust. 'Sometime this year' had become 'Before my wheels turn again'. Blast.
ATF snail trail:
Luckily my 90 minute wait was punctuated with conversations and well-wishes. Several classic owners stopped to talk and offered all kinds of assistance. As the light faded I dug out the Zircon Blue touch-up kit and tightened a few hoses. The posit that the optimism of a classic car owner can be judged from the reading material he carries on board for breakdowns. I read the engine labels. The recovery gentlemen was previously a P5 owner and got me home safely, even helping with the extra hard labour to wheel it safely into the garage.
Obligatory recovery shot:
So - does anyone have a BW35 they would be willing to part with? I think I may need to have a good sleep before making any decisions - such are the vicissitudes of the classic hobby.
ghce
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear of this setback in your motoring pleasure, perhaps some consideration to a ZF conversion? been done before as recall seeing some photos of a P5B with said ZF.
I read to the end hoping to see your intriguing reference to an Italian connection furthur expounded .... the anticipation of it all, one presumes cars not woman
Graeme
I read to the end hoping to see your intriguing reference to an Italian connection furthur expounded .... the anticipation of it all, one presumes cars not woman
Graeme
Spinakerr
New Member
Many thanks for the well wishes and PMS volunteering advice, gearboxes and cars being broken. ll advice and opinions greatly received, especially on the subject of BW35 rebuilds and possible substitutes.
If anyone has a gearbox and torque converter lying about please do let me know!
ghce - a member of the P5 club has a ZF box and the extra gear helps temper the frequency of fuel stops, however given the originality of the rest of the car I think a BW35 would be best. I am all for modifying classics to a useable condition but so many examples bowl along gracefully on the original setup that I intend to pursue it.
Whichever route I pursue it will not be financially agreeable, so I had best get on with selling some of my spares...
If anyone has a gearbox and torque converter lying about please do let me know!
ghce - a member of the P5 club has a ZF box and the extra gear helps temper the frequency of fuel stops, however given the originality of the rest of the car I think a BW35 would be best. I am all for modifying classics to a useable condition but so many examples bowl along gracefully on the original setup that I intend to pursue it.
Whichever route I pursue it will not be financially agreeable, so I had best get on with selling some of my spares...
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
I think the advice Harvey will give you is to have your own box re-conditioned. Any other you buy will be an unknown quantity unless you know for a fact that it has been fully re-conned' recently by someone who really knows their onions. What's the point of spending money, doing the work then having your replacement fail so you have to go through the whole process again? A little pricey yes, but you only have to do it once if you have it done properly.
You're in London too so you're not a million miles from the BW authority that Heineken would make.
You're in London too so you're not a million miles from the BW authority that Heineken would make.
Spinakerr
New Member
The P5B is roadworthy once more - after a number of trips to a gearbox specialist, five new tyres of the correct size and new number plates a fresh MOT was granted last week. Huzzah!
I elected to have the BW35 rebuilt and the established specialist uncovered a veritable Frankenbox with various decrepit and dying components. It also turned out to be mainly a '303' variant which is the last iteration for Rover V8s (although harvey do correct me if I am mistaken) and has now been rebuilt as such. As always, many thanks to those in and out of this forum who built this novice's understanding and assisted in sourcing some parts required. A separate oil cooler for the gearbox has also been fitted to create a system less impacted by some of the 'London overheating' I experience. To this end I have ordered a Kenlowe kit with a view to removing the original fan - this will require some careful placement given the new oil cooler.
The tyres were sourced through the P5 club as and dramatically improved the handling, braking and ride quality. I encourage P5 owners to source the correct 185s or (at a push) 205s only having now driven many differently-shoed P5s.
The number plates were becoming illegible on the rear and so a new pair in the correct P5 bespoke size were sourced following a recommendation from another forum member. Unfortunately even these 'new' plates required adjustment with a paintbrush and the correct matching black paint to meet my exacting standards; it seems quality control is variable in even our established part suppliers.
I attended a recent Brooklands Classic evening meeting which was an absolute joy - his Lordship came to a rest next to one of the few cars that sends me into a wide eyed tiptoeing officianado - a Lamborghini 400gt. Once parked I applied every brake possible and clambered out of the opposite side door to minimise any chances of mishap. Attached are some photos from the night.
So what lies ahead? The cooling is a priority for the summer, along with the final traces of body rust in the A and D pillars. Then it is on to the brightwork and interior - walnut trim and the leather will likely keep me busy this autumn...
I elected to have the BW35 rebuilt and the established specialist uncovered a veritable Frankenbox with various decrepit and dying components. It also turned out to be mainly a '303' variant which is the last iteration for Rover V8s (although harvey do correct me if I am mistaken) and has now been rebuilt as such. As always, many thanks to those in and out of this forum who built this novice's understanding and assisted in sourcing some parts required. A separate oil cooler for the gearbox has also been fitted to create a system less impacted by some of the 'London overheating' I experience. To this end I have ordered a Kenlowe kit with a view to removing the original fan - this will require some careful placement given the new oil cooler.
The tyres were sourced through the P5 club as and dramatically improved the handling, braking and ride quality. I encourage P5 owners to source the correct 185s or (at a push) 205s only having now driven many differently-shoed P5s.
The number plates were becoming illegible on the rear and so a new pair in the correct P5 bespoke size were sourced following a recommendation from another forum member. Unfortunately even these 'new' plates required adjustment with a paintbrush and the correct matching black paint to meet my exacting standards; it seems quality control is variable in even our established part suppliers.
I attended a recent Brooklands Classic evening meeting which was an absolute joy - his Lordship came to a rest next to one of the few cars that sends me into a wide eyed tiptoeing officianado - a Lamborghini 400gt. Once parked I applied every brake possible and clambered out of the opposite side door to minimise any chances of mishap. Attached are some photos from the night.
So what lies ahead? The cooling is a priority for the summer, along with the final traces of body rust in the A and D pillars. Then it is on to the brightwork and interior - walnut trim and the leather will likely keep me busy this autumn...
Hi Spinakerr,
It is always a great feeling when issues are sorted out. Did you retain the inbuilt cooler within the radiator thus running the new one in series, or has the radiator item been bypassed altogether? I must admit that I always find it odd that in the U.K which is not nearly as hot a country as Australia, overheating issues with Rovers seem far more common.
If I am not mistaken, the 205 tyres are actually a tad too wide for the 5" P5 Rostyle rims, so 195 tyres would be a better choice, but then I don't know if they would be available in anything approaching the correct rolling diameter for the P5B.
Your Rover looks great!
Ron.
It is always a great feeling when issues are sorted out. Did you retain the inbuilt cooler within the radiator thus running the new one in series, or has the radiator item been bypassed altogether? I must admit that I always find it odd that in the U.K which is not nearly as hot a country as Australia, overheating issues with Rovers seem far more common.
If I am not mistaken, the 205 tyres are actually a tad too wide for the 5" P5 Rostyle rims, so 195 tyres would be a better choice, but then I don't know if they would be available in anything approaching the correct rolling diameter for the P5B.
Your Rover looks great!
Ron.
Spinakerr
New Member
The (recently recored) radiator has been bypassed entirely at the moment for the ATF. It may have been wishful thinking but the running temperature for the engine coolant was marginally lower as a result on the 2 hour drive home. I will be monitoring all liquid levels carefully and as I take the car out more frequently and attend shows in August.
The many and varied opinions surrounding the 'correct' tyres for a P5 are not for reproduction here but 185s are definately closer to the original crossplies than 205s, with 195/75/15s being a probable (but bizarrely rare in non-van tyre spec) alternative. The 205 a lot of drivers carry are chosen as a plentiful, relatively cheap whitewall that also gives the car a more muscular look. This water is further muddied by the number of owners who are running Jensen Interceptor size rostyles, which look the same (15") but (I think) are an extra 1/2 inch wider and so can carry 205s or even 215s.
On an unrelated subject, while the above was being addressed I purchased a daily driver that is the antithesis to the old British V8 automatic - an Alfa Romeo 164. Purchased for the price of, well, five P5 tyres and requiring only a few parts to get running it has been a stress-free Italian thoroughbred for 2000 miles.
The many and varied opinions surrounding the 'correct' tyres for a P5 are not for reproduction here but 185s are definately closer to the original crossplies than 205s, with 195/75/15s being a probable (but bizarrely rare in non-van tyre spec) alternative. The 205 a lot of drivers carry are chosen as a plentiful, relatively cheap whitewall that also gives the car a more muscular look. This water is further muddied by the number of owners who are running Jensen Interceptor size rostyles, which look the same (15") but (I think) are an extra 1/2 inch wider and so can carry 205s or even 215s.
On an unrelated subject, while the above was being addressed I purchased a daily driver that is the antithesis to the old British V8 automatic - an Alfa Romeo 164. Purchased for the price of, well, five P5 tyres and requiring only a few parts to get running it has been a stress-free Italian thoroughbred for 2000 miles.
Spinakerr wrote,...
It does indeed make a difference to engine running temperatures by not utilising a transmission cooler inside the radiator. I can vouch for that from first hand experience, so your engine's lower coolant temperature isn't wishful thinking. :wink:
It will also be beneficial in terms of your transmission's longevity, running cooler will extend both fluid and component life.
Ron.
It does indeed make a difference to engine running temperatures by not utilising a transmission cooler inside the radiator. I can vouch for that from first hand experience, so your engine's lower coolant temperature isn't wishful thinking. :wink:
It will also be beneficial in terms of your transmission's longevity, running cooler will extend both fluid and component life.
Ron.
The reason we have the ATF cooler in the radiator here in the UK, Ron, is one you won't have experienced! On a very cold winters morning, it helps the ATF to heat up to the correct running temperature by taking heat from the engine to the auto box!
For that reason, I might be tempted to run the separate cooler in isolation in the summer and then reverse the plumbing back to standard for the winter. It is also possible to fit an oil thermostat in the ATF line which also helps.
Chris
For that reason, I might be tempted to run the separate cooler in isolation in the summer and then reverse the plumbing back to standard for the winter. It is also possible to fit an oil thermostat in the ATF line which also helps.
Chris
James, every time I see the car in your photos, it looks better. It couldn't have gone to a better home, and it's wonderful to see it looking resplendent on a summer's evening.
Glad that you're getting to the bottom of any issues, and I can't wait to see how it eventually turns out.
Your 164 looks stunning! One of my friends rather fancies a 3.0 at the moment, but is struggling to find one which isn't a horrendously faded red. Very stylish, and I'm led to believe, rather underrated!
Glad that you're getting to the bottom of any issues, and I can't wait to see how it eventually turns out.
Your 164 looks stunning! One of my friends rather fancies a 3.0 at the moment, but is struggling to find one which isn't a horrendously faded red. Very stylish, and I'm led to believe, rather underrated!
Spinakerr
New Member
While the front brightwork was pretty decent after a clean and oil, the rear required some attention. The car came with a number of pieces ready to fit (number plate cover, two boot handles) but two of the lesser-spotted P5 components, a rear bumper and reversing light 'hat' took a long time to find. The former was picked up on ebay, the auction ending at an unsociable hour on Sunday morning favouring my chance low bid. I don't recommend taking large metallic items on the London Underground - two very polite Transport Officers took an interest after I was spotted at Earl's Court. It is a used piece but far superior to my original unit and fitted easily enough. I would recommend having a helper for this task as it is unwieldy and all to easy to deform by bolting too tight. Instantly, the car looked healthier.
Next up the reversing lamp holder was derusted and sanded, primer with anti-rust and spreyed with aluminium paint. The glass cleaned up with a good soak and mild abrasive (Jif) and the bulb holders cajoled back into symmetry. After all the expenditure this year I decided against the overpriced replacement gaskets and simply cut my own from waterproof camping mat. The reversing light 'hat' was a rare find through a friend, still in its packaging and mercifully cheap. Finally, new number plates were added just in time for the Littlewick show and I was much happier exhibiting a car without chrome pitting!
I have been experimenting with polishes and waxes recently and found the Meguairs three step system to be highly effective in restoring the older paint and offering relatively good protection from water:
The car suffered from slight overheating in London traffic on the hottest days of this year, but never stalled or lost dihydrogen monoxide. After testing the thermostat in my kitchen the cooling components all seem to be 'working' but I can't find a record of the water pump ever being replaced. Can anyone suggest a good unit? I have seen several reports of 'new' P5 pumps failing in short order...
Hope everyone has remember to oil/protect their chrome for the autumnal weather we're getting!
Next up the reversing lamp holder was derusted and sanded, primer with anti-rust and spreyed with aluminium paint. The glass cleaned up with a good soak and mild abrasive (Jif) and the bulb holders cajoled back into symmetry. After all the expenditure this year I decided against the overpriced replacement gaskets and simply cut my own from waterproof camping mat. The reversing light 'hat' was a rare find through a friend, still in its packaging and mercifully cheap. Finally, new number plates were added just in time for the Littlewick show and I was much happier exhibiting a car without chrome pitting!
I have been experimenting with polishes and waxes recently and found the Meguairs three step system to be highly effective in restoring the older paint and offering relatively good protection from water:
The car suffered from slight overheating in London traffic on the hottest days of this year, but never stalled or lost dihydrogen monoxide. After testing the thermostat in my kitchen the cooling components all seem to be 'working' but I can't find a record of the water pump ever being replaced. Can anyone suggest a good unit? I have seen several reports of 'new' P5 pumps failing in short order...
Hope everyone has remember to oil/protect their chrome for the autumnal weather we're getting!
Spinakerr
New Member
Evening all,
Returning to this forum after a few months away, good to see so many projects marching onwards in the winter months.
I thought I'd post an update as I finally had an evening to myself and some good tea.
After sitting in the inevitable traffic on a cold London night last November, eyes flitting endlessly to the temperature needle for perceived changes I resolved to solve the issue once and for all. After changing the temperature sensor and all the work documented above, I ordered a Kenlowe kit. This was a Saturday well spent, and despite my apprehension at fitting the fan between the new ATF pipes it was entangled without incident and - joy of joys - has ensured smooth running since. I now set off for every journey without apprehension and without feverishly checking for traffic updates. Phew.
This has transformed my usage of the Rover for 'occasional' to 'at least once a week' and has also improved road safety by ensuring my eyes are on the road and not the dashboard.
After this expense and the shortening hours of daylight I completed a few cosmetic improvements for the engine bay indoors. First up, the airbox, which was looking a little tired:
Rubdown, zinc primer and some coats of aluminium paint later:
Secondly, the radiator top was truly dismal. As one of the emaciated stickers drew blood one day I resolved to give it the same treatment, this time with stove enamel:
I finally tracked down the correct replacement dizzy cap and after some misorderings, the correct power steering belt was installed. No longer was each parking maneuver announced with a chorus of abrasive grounching.
I now had solid faith in Rover for the first time in my ownership. Over the Christmas period it completed 500 miles visiting family & friends without missing a beat. I finally attended the Boxing Day show in Romsey, Hampshire with my father, two years after attending and pledging to find a proper classic we could roll up in; I was beaming. Here is a shot from 8am that day following a hard frost. The Rover started without incident and circumnavigated stricken trees with ease:
Hope everyone is well here - I've got some catching up to do...
Returning to this forum after a few months away, good to see so many projects marching onwards in the winter months.
I thought I'd post an update as I finally had an evening to myself and some good tea.
After sitting in the inevitable traffic on a cold London night last November, eyes flitting endlessly to the temperature needle for perceived changes I resolved to solve the issue once and for all. After changing the temperature sensor and all the work documented above, I ordered a Kenlowe kit. This was a Saturday well spent, and despite my apprehension at fitting the fan between the new ATF pipes it was entangled without incident and - joy of joys - has ensured smooth running since. I now set off for every journey without apprehension and without feverishly checking for traffic updates. Phew.
This has transformed my usage of the Rover for 'occasional' to 'at least once a week' and has also improved road safety by ensuring my eyes are on the road and not the dashboard.
After this expense and the shortening hours of daylight I completed a few cosmetic improvements for the engine bay indoors. First up, the airbox, which was looking a little tired:
Rubdown, zinc primer and some coats of aluminium paint later:
Secondly, the radiator top was truly dismal. As one of the emaciated stickers drew blood one day I resolved to give it the same treatment, this time with stove enamel:
I finally tracked down the correct replacement dizzy cap and after some misorderings, the correct power steering belt was installed. No longer was each parking maneuver announced with a chorus of abrasive grounching.
I now had solid faith in Rover for the first time in my ownership. Over the Christmas period it completed 500 miles visiting family & friends without missing a beat. I finally attended the Boxing Day show in Romsey, Hampshire with my father, two years after attending and pledging to find a proper classic we could roll up in; I was beaming. Here is a shot from 8am that day following a hard frost. The Rover started without incident and circumnavigated stricken trees with ease:
Hope everyone is well here - I've got some catching up to do...
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
Looking good. You may find your 'top hat' will show signs of pitting sooner rather than later, as mine did when I fitted an original, complete & boxed number plate unit. It also looks like you have the 'through rad' metal bolts holding the fan on. Unless they're stainless they rust & can cause leaks in the rad where they pass through which I also have experience of. An alternative mounting method is advisable when you have a little spare time to fabricate one.
grifterkid
Member
Goodness me, that is a lovely car...!!!
Any chance of some interior shots please...?! Those interiors are just gorgeous...
Any chance of some interior shots please...?! Those interiors are just gorgeous...
Spinakerr
New Member
Thanks for the comments - good to be back with a healthy car.
The Rovering Member - I discussed with the helpful chaps at Kenlowe as I had gathered metal was a problem. They supplied toughened plastic grips which pass through the fins. The fan is also much lighter than older used examples I looked over, so I proceeded with the installation. I should also say it is a recently recored radiator and so hopefully will be tough for many years.
The rear plate top hat has been given an almost weekly smudge of petroleum jelly alongside the rest of my chrome - this and the good rear bumper were some of the priciest items to obtain. I'm happier putting on the gloop and then covering many miles all year round than I am locking it up for months so I've resolved to just drive and enjoy (with suitable precautions) and take off the jelly with petrol once the rains subside. If the car stays with me for the long term I've been talking to friendly blacksmith about stainless options.
grifterkid - I'll get some interior shots when the sun come out and I can get the Webasto open. It is quite presentable but has split wooden trim (a rare walnut) so I am researching reveneering options before it is used for a wedding in April. Any suggestions or recommendations appreciated!
The Rovering Member - I discussed with the helpful chaps at Kenlowe as I had gathered metal was a problem. They supplied toughened plastic grips which pass through the fins. The fan is also much lighter than older used examples I looked over, so I proceeded with the installation. I should also say it is a recently recored radiator and so hopefully will be tough for many years.
The rear plate top hat has been given an almost weekly smudge of petroleum jelly alongside the rest of my chrome - this and the good rear bumper were some of the priciest items to obtain. I'm happier putting on the gloop and then covering many miles all year round than I am locking it up for months so I've resolved to just drive and enjoy (with suitable precautions) and take off the jelly with petrol once the rains subside. If the car stays with me for the long term I've been talking to friendly blacksmith about stainless options.
grifterkid - I'll get some interior shots when the sun come out and I can get the Webasto open. It is quite presentable but has split wooden trim (a rare walnut) so I am researching reveneering options before it is used for a wedding in April. Any suggestions or recommendations appreciated!
The Rovering Member
Well-Known Member
That all sounds fine then.
A very nice motor car.
A very nice motor car.