Project AR J

[arthuy]

Some of you know I have picked up a rough 3500s about a month ago. I has been hiding away at my friends underground carpark since I got it.

As I was off today I went up to get it and tackle a few small job.

First up was the brakes. Not much meat on the pads and were well overdue a change as were the rears thankfully nothing was siezed and I had a set of both pads in the garage.

Whilst I was doing the fronts I found a few rust issues that weren't expected :cry: seen worse and fixed worse. More concerning is the front tyres, the rubber seems to be lifting from the carcas. The rears are good being made 2004, they are firestone 185/80/14 91t. I will probably ditch them all and get a decent new set. Which tyre size and brand, got to keep things to a reasonable budget but I am confused with the actual tyres that should be fitted. I think I can get H rated tyres in the 185/80 or 195/70 sizes. but will need to get some pronto.

I had also scooped a stainless exhaust via ebay. the Cans fitted (will take a photo) have beed repair but are blowing badly, it cam off easy so I was looking for the catch. the middle section is too long so I couldn't fit it, lucky I know and exhaust fabricator. Also the pipe fitting had no flange but had been shoved in to the long pipe??

The waving speedo should now be fine as I fitted a new cable and stripped the speedo and gave it a good clean as the odometer and trip werent turning.

The list of jobs I think will get longer but I need to replace the wiper delay unit, buy rear overiders, tyres, investigate missing bolt on the de-dion, catalogue rust.

My intention is to get it into a safe useable condition and not a full blown resto. I will post up a few photos when I get a chance. I had toyed with just selling the car on but would like to get some use out of it first.

Colin

 

[chrisyork]

Hi Colin

We've just bought a set of tyres for Jimmy. Because he has to go through German TuV first inspection it was dritical we got H rated. Tracking some down was a real game, but to cut a long story short, we finished up going to Vintage Tyres which is an offshoot of the National Motor Museum at Beaulieu.

http://www.vintagetyres.com/

If you simply go in for "fitment" and type in Rover 3500 it comes up with the right answers! What a pleasure! They are selling Camac 185/80's at a very reasonable price, and as I said, H rated. They will either ship out to you for free, or fit for free if you visit them. Excellent servicve and very pleasant. And despite all the apparent leads and Ebay retailers etc, they were the only people who could actually sell us an H rated 185/80 as opposed to talking about them!

Chris

 

[arthuy]

Right a few photo to keep the forum guys happy.

After yesterdays rust discovery I decided to get the car in the air and see what is what before putting more time in to it.

The outer sill has the old rust-a-flakes inside which poured out as I pressed my thumb up. Having bought the car as a solid example needing only a few patches it isnt so much a shock as a surprise.

So to get the car in a safe condition I will need 2 outer sills plus a few bits around the servo, spare wheel well, corner next to the tools and I haven't taken the wings off yet. I suspect at least one of the d-post are soft.

Not looking great for old AR J. Good thing is that I have done this sort of repair work a few times over the years so can fix it with a sense of de ja vu. The question is an I justify it? as the body panels are all needing a bit of work it makes things a bit less appealing.

Obviously it is beyond patching but might be listen to offers if anyone is looking for a tax exempt 3500s projet with neew brake pads just fitted

AS found

Staying at a friends

Rust-a-Flakes

Front sill/wing

Rear sill

 

[arthuy]

Got a bit of work done today, the stainless exhaust was about 3 inches to long. Took a run down to Mercat exhaust and got Wullie to cut a bit out. So got that fitted tonight.

One thing I was a bit concenerned about was that the lower 3 bolts on the n/s de dion elbow were missing or rather the heads had. I was able to split the tube and elbow enough to get in with some long now pliers and thankfully the broken bits came out easily. Being a horder I was able to take 3 bolts from a spare elbow so one more job off the list.

Have ordered up a pair of sills, not sure when they will arrive but took a run up to machine mart for a load of grinding discs and welding wire. I will get the carpets lifted and see how much of the floor needs replaced.

Colin

 

[arthuy]

Today was meant to be a hot air ballon trip for me but has been cancelled due to weather :-(

However the sills I ordered up from JRW arrived yesterday so I am thinking about a bit for grinding and welding. I have a bank holiday on monday. I wonder home much I can get done over the weekend?

I will post a few pictures up once I get the wings off and the interior stripped.

Colin

 

[quattro]

I can't actually see all of the pictures, but it does look like you have some welding practice on the way

Richard

 

[arthuy]

Drivers side is now much lighter.Cutting out the repairs that had been welded over the rust old inner sill and floor.

I am getting de ja vu doing this, This is the 4th or 5th P6 I have had to cut and weld. They all seem to go in the same places just vary in how bad they have got.

Got the front wing off and will have a bit to do aroud the servo, front wing mount, hockey stick and the drain channel.

Wing off looking ok-ish

scrape the underseal a bit

Rot cut out of the floor

Inner sill over patch which was tack welded!!

Managed to give my leg a nice gash with the angle grinder, got to draw a little bit of blood to bond with your new car

I will get a bit more done tonight and hopefully get the drivers side nail by next week.

Colin

Photo album is here http://s978.photobucket.com/albums/ae261/arthuy/AR J 3500s/

 

[rockdemon]

You're making quick progress there... Brings back memories

 

[chris]

good luck with the project seeing all the welding youve got to do makes mine look easy

 

[webmaster]

That's what I call getting stuck in, keep up that rate of progress and you'll have it all done before Tuesday !

 

[JVY]

Interesting Colin. Hope you manage to get plenty work done this weekend. Cutting and welding is surely more fun than a balloon trip .
I'm especially interested in your front floor repairs. I got an advisory on my MOT that mine were just starting to rot in the corners. So, I may have similar job to do soon. Keep the pic's coming please. It gives me encouragement to know I'm not alone.

 

[arthuy]

Just finished for the day.

The outer sill is mostly welded in, I am using the trim the sill method as it saves disturbing the posts and less chance of distorting the car.

As I hadn't expected the inner sill to be shot I hadn't ordered one up, so to avoid delays I will make sections up using sheet steel. The lower D-post will take a bit of work to get it solid but p6 are not difficult to weld.

I hope to get an early start tomorrow and get the drivers side done.

I used some very thin cutting disc and have been very impressed. Need to run up to Machine mart and get some more though.

Steve as always feel free to drop in and have a look whilst i have the sills in bits.

Colin

 

[arthuy]

After a trip to machine mart and B&Q I got back to the cutting and welding in the afternoon.

I have cut out the old inner sill and the tacked on repairs. I will need to re-attach the seat mounts.

The inner sill sections was made from sheet steel which a fold a small flange on to. The front is mostly does with some tidying up to do.

I am finding it a little interesting getting a good setting on the welder. the New JRW sill are nice and thick to the point where my shears wont cut the steel. I noticed that the weld penetration was poor so turned it up which is fine for the new metal but the old thin metal on the floor is doesn't like it.

Inner sill section trial fit

inner and outer sill. the outer is the dull silver on the right, the inner sill repairs will be in to setiions.

Inner welded and floor repair before trimming

Hopefully I will have enough metal left to do the rear section and the sill closings. Doubt I will get metal tomorrow as it is a bank holiday up here.

Colin

 

[testrider]

Good work, it's always quicker once you've done a job once or twice before.

Could you take a picture of the replacement JRW sill panel before you fit it to the other side please? Also could you explain the sill trim method a bit more please?

 

[JVY]

I am finding it a little interesting getting a good setting on the welder. the New JRW sill are nice and thick to the point where my shears wont cut the steel. I noticed that the weld penetration was poor so turned it up which is fine for the new metal but the old thin metal on the floor is doesn't like it.

I am only too familiar with this problem .

Would also second Testrider's request for more info on what you mean by "sill trim method" please?

 

[rockdemon]

I am finding it a little interesting getting a good setting on the welder. the New JRW sill are nice and thick to the point where my shears wont cut the steel. I noticed that the weld penetration was poor so turned it up which is fine for the new metal but the old thin metal on the floor is doesn't like it.


I am only too familiar with this problem .

Would also second Testrider's request for more info on what you mean by "sill trim method" please?

Yep - the repair panels are definitely thicker gauge than the car... (which bodes well for their longevity - not so sure on the joint!)

Sill trim method surely means not removing the entire sill, just removing what is rotten and cutting the repair panel to fit. That's what i did on the side where i used the repair panel!

Rich

 

[arthuy]

Tried to update the thread last night but had been attacked by an F'ing trojan virus. Fingers crossed it in now ok.

The JRW sill photos.

 

[arthuy]

I spent Monday morning trying to find a sheet of steel to finish my repairs. Unfortunatley they were all closed for the bank holiday.

I got stuck in after lunch. Got the inner sill finished and the rear floor. There will be a bit of work to do around the d-post and chassis leg which will leave the hockey stick and front wing around the servo.

front inner and outer sill

with closing panel

inner sill

Floor and seat mounts

D-post to be fixed

Metal cut from sill i additio to the pile of cornflakes

 

[webmaster]

That D post is a mess, good luck with that one !

You're really getting on with the repairs though, excellent progress 8)

 

[arthuy]

So quite a bit of welding done and more to go.

A few things I have learned is to put flanges on the repair panels. I used to just put flat plates on but unless it was dead straight where the new and old met there was gaps. By Adding a little flange seems to have made thes earlier. I also try for the bigget section I can. It took me longer to do small patches than one large.

The P6 really is a great car to weld very simple and good access to the floor and sill area.

As the other guys have said the method of fitting the sill I have went for simply involves trimming the metal so it passes the jack tubes and round the a, b/c and d-post the sill tends to rot bottom up so there is usually a lot of good metal left. I cut as muh rot out as possible then cut the new panel down to suit. Because you are seam welding there is lots of strength in the repair like this.

If I had know that the inne sill was so bad I would have replaced it with a full panel. Other than having to brace the car it would be the best way to repair. Trimming the sill is a bit more involved but keeps the car from flexing and and leaves good original metal undisturbed.

One thing which is always a right pain is the jack tubes. I have weld these up i the past but feel unless you renew them and all surronding metal is sound it is a waste of time. The rear jack tube on this car fell off I have decided to blank the hole i the inner sill and d-post up. I never use them anyway.

Hope that this encorages a few people get a mig and try it yourself. I did just that about 10 years ago when I couldn't find someone to weld the car for a reasonable price so get the sleeves rolled up and go for it.

My favourite bit of equipement is a welding hood. I used to end up with grinding in my hair and the od flying bit of weld landing in my ears.

Colin