Steering Box oil seal replacement.

raylish said:
However, I found that my ball-joint separator worked fine on the outer joint, but the 'flats' on the inner joint are in the same line as the drop arm and there is no room between the joint and the bulkhead to come in from the other direction; should I just use a forked crowbar :?: Will I automatically need to replace the rubber boots or is it a case of if inspection says necessary :?:
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Hi Ray,
I've just removed mine and was lucky that the inner joint came loose easily. I just gave it a tap with a long drift and it popped apart, which was nice. If that doesn't work, just leave it until the steering box is loose. Pull the steering box forwards and access should improve enough to get the splitter on. The rubber boots on mine are good enough to reuse, so yes, inspect and decide.
raylish said:
My final problem was removing the windscreen wiper motor and assembly; I ended up having to remove the air intake valance in order to wrench and prise the link-arm assembly out from between the base unit and the heater matrix - Is this the correct procedure, please - If possible, I would like to be a little more gentle when dealing with Roy the Rover :?:
Click to expand...
Remove all the rubber spacers and washers, even those at the bottom of the wiper spindles. Then rotate the whole rack so that the motor is vertical. This is impossible with the bonnet in place, so either remove the bonnet or undo it at the right hand side (that's right when sitting in the driving seat) then lift that corner of the bonnet up. The assembly will then lift out without being forced.

The seals arrived yesterday and are a very tight fit. I had to use a drift to fit them to the spare steering box that I'm using as a guinea pig. It's now rather stiff to turn. I'm hoping that will improve with use. I filled it with oil and am waiting to see if it leaks.
Bad news for me, is that after removing the good steering box from my car, I've realised that it's a different type and the seals are not accessible from outside! This is the type of box with the flat steel top, not cast aluminium. I'd wrongly assumed it would be the same underneath. The spare box has more wear so I'm reluctant to fit that. I have another in my spares/project car so may have to use that instead.

So is yours the type with the cast aluminium top, or flat steel?
Anyone know which type were early and which were late?
 
Riiight... I think the flat topped steering box must be the earlier type. I took mine apart to see what manner of seals it has and there are 2 'O' rings which are only accessible when the box is dismantled. Proper oil seals must have been a development for the later type. No doubt I could get hold of matching 'O' rings, but there's no point because the ball bearing cups are badly pitted. They could be replaced, but it wouldn't be worth it.
I then opened up the scrap (later type) steering box to compare. Inside is very different with a better engineered cam arrangement. Again the bearing surfaces were shot which is why it had felt so notchy. Now however, they are part of the shaft so can't be replaced.
 
Early type has the cast alloy top with the adjuster covered with a screw on cap, later types have the flat top, with the adjuster visible and a large locknut.
 
So is yours the type with the cast aluminium top, or flat steel?
Anyone know which type were early and which were late?

Hello Willy/Harvey,

Mine (it would appear) is the earlier type - cast aluminium top with adjuster covered by a screw on cap :?: First time it has been 'earlier' for anything - engine block is 'later', rear calipers 'later' (girlng) :?:

ATB Ray
 
raylish said:
So is yours the type with the cast aluminium top, or flat steel?
Click to expand...
Hi Ray,
My car had the later type fitted, but all my spares were the earlier type (including the one I measured for the seals) so I've now discarded the later one.
Over the weekend I fitted the seals to my best spare and fitted it to the car. No current MOT so I could only test it on my drive where everything seemed OK.
Input seal in place (it sat more evenly once it had been rotated a couple of times):
P6_steering_box_3.jpg


Lower seal (grease makes it look messy, but it's fine):
P6_steering_box_4.jpg

Tips for refitting the steering box to the car. Tie the steering "stop" bracket to the box to keep it in place.
P6_steering_box_2.jpg

P6_steering_box_5.jpg

Aligning the box with the steering column is a real pain. Removing the rubber grommet/sleeve from the bulkhead and sliding it onto the steering box "neck" helps you see what's going on. Then just slide it back into place and tuck it into the hole once you've finished.

So the seals...
Fit was not perfect but they seem to do the job. Their outer diameter was a bit large so I ground them down a little bit until they fitted snugly but without hammering them into place. I did this by rotating them against 600 grit Wet&Dry paper with plenty of water. The inner diameter of the lower seal is perfect but the input shaft one is quite tight. I used plenty of grease when fitting them and they don't make the box feel stiff in the way that the first test did. I hadn't reduced the outer diameter of the first test seals which had needed a lot of force to fit.
Ray, I take it you'd still like a pair? Would you like me to "adjust" their sizes in this way or send them as new?
Either way I can post them tomorrow. You can pay me by Paypal afterwards when I know the postage cost. It's unlikely to be very much.
 
Ray, I take it you'd still like a pair? Would you like me to "adjust" their sizes in this way or send them as new?
Either way I can post them tomorrow. You can pay me by Paypal afterwards when I know the postage cost. It's unlikely to be very much.

Willy, it is very kind and thoughtful of you to post these useful pictures and tips. I would be grateful to you if you could adjust the sizes for me - You have alteady done this succesfully :!:

I will PayPal you just as soon as I know the combined cost of seals and postage - Thank you again :D

ATB Ray
 
Will do Ray.
I've printed out your address, so feel free to edit it out of your post if you prefer not to leave it on a public forum.
 
Willy Eckerslyke said:
Will do Ray.
I've printed out your address, so feel free to edit it out of your post if you prefer not to leave it on a public forum.
Click to expand...

Hello Willy,

Right, I've removed my steering box - The inner ball-joint just dropped out after I undid the castle nut just like yours :!:

I now have two identical (and I am told, earlier) boxes. I attempted to prise the top seal from my donor box, but it came out in pieces. How did you prise yours out, please :?: Does it matter if it comes out in pieces :?:

Willy, I'm looking at the nice clear picture of your top seal and it appears to cover the top edge of the bush - Is this so :?: I'm asking because if so it seems that most of my seal has disintegrated - I can see the top edge of the bush and what appears to be left of my seal is down between the bush and the shaft:?:

It will probably all become clearer when I can offer up the replacement seals.

ATB Ray
 
Hi Ray,
Glad to hear the ball joint was so amenable!

Your seal sounds in a right mess. I managed to get mine out by tapping the outside edges inwards with an old chisel. This loosened them enough to be prised out easily.
The old seals were metal cased whereas the new ones are rubber cased.
You can't see a bush at all in my photos. The "input" shaft widens as it passes through the seal. With no seal present you should be able to see flat aluminium at the bottom of the sleeve where it sits. Right against the shaft, there should be about 1mm of a different material visible (the bushing sleeve), but this doesn't stick up higher than the bottom.
P6_seals_schematic.jpg

Aluminium shown black; shaft grey; bush yellow, seal red.
 
Willy Eckerslyke said:
Hi Ray,
Glad to hear the ball joint was so amenable!

Your seal sounds in a right mess. I managed to get mine out by tapping the outside edges inwards with an old chisel. This loosened them enough to be prised out easily.
The old seals were metal cased whereas the new ones are rubber cased.
Willy,

This is what the input end of my box looks like - Is it the same as yours, please?

ATB Ray
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Hi Ray, yes that's just the same. The dark ring is the top of the seal which needs prising out. You can try levering it out with a screwdriver but it will probably just bend. Tapping one edge down and inwards with a chisel or old screwdriver should loosen it enough for it to come out.

By the way, I sent you a PM...
 
Willy Eckerslyke said:
Hi Ray, yes that's just the same. The dark ring is the top of the seal which needs prising out. You can try levering it out with a screwdriver but it will probably just bend. Tapping one edge down and inwards with a chisel or old screwdriver should loosen it enough for it to come out.

By the way, I sent you a PM...
Click to expand...

Willy,

Got the PM - No problem.

The dark ring is metal - I need to lever the metal out? Is this correct, please?

ATB Ray
 
While you have the seal out look for cracks in the casing as that can happen, and the leak is through the crack rather than the seal. I'm sure it's just a trick of the light, but that casing does look very much like it's cracked. (On the RHS, you can see what looks like a crack across the end face, which you can see tracking down the inside.)
 
harveyp6 said:
While you have the seal out look for cracks in the casing as that can happen, and the leak is through the crack rather than the seal. I'm sure it's just a trick of the light, but that casing does look very much like it's cracked. (On the RHS, you can see what looks like a crack across the end face, which you can see tracking down the inside.)
Click to expand...

Harvey, (Willy),

Both of my boxes have a hairline crack in very nearly the same place - Don't know yet whether they track inside (until I get old seal out); presumambly, if this is the problem, the solution is going to be an un-cracked box?

I have to say that both boxes were absolutely covered in crap all over as was several miles of P6 around them - Difficult to know which seal was leaking (probably both), but the fact that both boxes were dry when opened suggests that bottom seals were main problem? What do you think?

ATB Ray
 
harveyp6 said:
While you have the seal out look for cracks in the casing as that can happen, and the leak is through the crack rather than the seal. I'm sure it's just a trick of the light, but that casing does look very much like it's cracked. (On the RHS, you can see what looks like a crack across the end face, which you can see tracking down the inside.)
Click to expand...

Harvey,

Maybe this is why later boxes had diferent seal arrangements; I am no engineer, but I do think that putting a steel-topped seal into an aluminium casting is asking for trouble, given their different expansion rates!

ATB Ray
 
If the box was empty, then unless it's been tipped upside down I can only think that it's leaked out of the droparm seal as you suspect. If the case is cracked it's either find another one, or once the seal is in, grind out a small "V" into the crack and fill it with Belzona or the like. The problem is because it's a non-PAS box the loadings on that input shaft is greater, so any movement on the shaft increases the likelihood of the crack keep opening up and leaking.
 
harveyp6 said:
If the box was empty, then unless it's been tipped upside down I can only think that it's leaked out of the droparm seal as you suspect. If the case is cracked it's either find another one, or once the seal is in, grind out a small "V" into the crack and fill it with Belzona or the like. The problem is because it's a non-PAS box the loadings on that input shaft is greater, so any movement on the shaft increases the likelihood of the crack keep opening up and leaking.
Click to expand...

Harvey,

How about doing as you suggest and also tightening down a jubilee clip hard over the repaired area?

ATB Ray
 
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