What's next at Lake View

Some cars are polite and some aren't.

I was out on my rounds this morning. Heywood then Spotland. Plenty of cobbled streets about.



WP_20141029_005 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

I went to Lake View in the afternoon and had lunch at my usual spot in Silktown - plenty of cobbled streets about.



WP_20141029_012 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Ethel, Daffodil and the Blue McFoo all glide over cobbles noiselessly.

Daffodil can take speed bumps at more than a crawl as well.

Hildegarde bobbles over cobbles but I don't care - this is a quirk of the car.

I'm less indulgent when it comes to pinking and sluggish performance - I tend to look less kindly on the situation and when we start spraying the contents of our radiator over our newly painted engine bay, I get very fed up.



WP_20141029_008 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Hildegarde's engine is in a sorry state.

It was an unknown - all we knew about this engine is that it was original to the car.

I won't get to decoke the engine with my steam cleaner after all but at least one of the combustion chambers will be shiny and clean thanks to a perforated head gasket. Combustion gases bubbling into the radiator, localised overheating.

It won't break down overnight but I know how this is going to develop - been there, done that, paid the garage bills.

I didn't need Tom to tell me that changing the head gaskets on this engine would be a sideways stab in the dark at the very best - the chances are this engine has suffered damage from overheating, quite possibly on the disastrous maiden trip to Scotland.

There is still life in Lil's engine. Lil was the ill-fated Three Thousand Five that was written off in the smash.

Tom gave up on this engine because of a snapped water pump bolt but this can and will be repaired.

That was a decent engine in a rotten car - it'd be a nice line in the story if it got to ride again.

Tom is fully booked for the rest of the year and I have taken steps to reduce my dependence on the garage.



Practical Classics by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

I got a magazine with my beloved Blue McFoo - Daffodil has exactly the same symptoms as fixed by Mark Gray
 
Just had word from Lake View.

I'd have pictures too but the internet is down on the A523 - it's an annual event - the wind blows and the internet goes.

Any hopes that today's arrival, "Chewbacca" could be repaired were swiftly dashed - it's rotten to the core. Tom says I got good value for my gross outlay to get the car to Lake View.

It has a very decent front bumper which will grace Hildegarde while the not so nice rear bumper will go on Daffodil.

I'll have yet another bonnet and boot set, and another roof too for my collection of spares. Somehow I doubt any of the other panels will be worth saving but if Tom can rescue them, he will.

As for Daffodil, Tom says she's the worst he's ever seen for homemade bodged repairs. With the spectre of Lil looming over the garage, I told Tom that if the car was rotten he could stop work now with no recriminations, no regrets if he was uncertain that the car could be repaired to the standard I expect.

He assured me that the car was not like Lil and that he was in the process of making solid repairs that would meet my motoring requirements, which go much further than not having damp carpets - I don't drive crusty colendars and he knows it. Daffodil's going to end up looking like a well used car but very solid underneath.
 
Yeah that's the plan I think. Chewbacca has a low mileage engine that ran nice and a gearbox where all the gear s engage etc. (leaks from the front but could just be the torque converter.) So hopefully that makes it useful. I feel better now someone else has confirmed it wasn't really fixable.
 
I've just got back from Lake View - I went to have a look at Chewbacca, the new arrival and to check on Daffodil's progress.



WP_20141214_020 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

It is always sad to the them being broken up but nothing will go to waste at Lake View - it never does. Tom says many of the panels look worthy of repair.



Rover 3500 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The two green cars in particular stand to gain from Chewbacca's imminent demise - there's even a towbar so the Blue McFoo will be the odd one out with no towbar.



WP_20141214_023 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr


Ethel's always had a towbar and Hildegarde has a brand new one awaiting fitment - she just has more pressing problems, like a screwed engine.

As for Daffodil, Tom really isn't messing about. He was filling his dumper truck with firewood for Noo-Noo, Lake View's resident stove when I arrived.



WP_20141214_012 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Noo-Noo works her magic on Daffodil.

I had to Google Noo-Noo to see why somebody, presumably Tom's lady friend, called the stove Noo-Noo. It's right - it does look like Noo-Noo from teletubbies.



Major Repairs by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr



WP_20141214_015 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Tom said:
Whoever repaired this car has no skill and no confidence in their own work
Click to expand...

He's cut out all the bodged work and his high quality repaired sills are already starting to take shape.

I won't pretend to know too much about what he is doing but Tom suggested I took the item pictured below to my P6 group as an example of how not to repair a car.

I didn't take him up on his suggestion and threw it back on the garage floor.



Bodge bodge bodge by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr



WP_20141214_018 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

He reckons he's cut about 100kg of rusty metal out of the car and replaced it with 10kg because the previous attempts were based around multiple layers of metal, sometimes riveted together, sometimes welded and sometimes riveted and welded and often neither.

I'm sure he exaggerates slightly about the amounts but lighter is better - Daffodil is already quick off the mark.

Talking of ratios, the 10:1 spend on Hildegarde v Daffodil will no longer be true after this - Daffodil will never catch Hildegarde or Ethel in terms of damaging my bank balance but the Blue McFoo is the true economy car - snapped up for £1500 and the amount I had to spend overhauling the brakes could and will be recouped by selling her rostyle wheels.



Botched repairs, Rover 3500 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

If anyone had attempted to jack this car up the jack would have sliced through the rear door but the extent of the problem only became apparent after Tom had got the car into a sufficiently reliable state to go and get it wet - I then complained of water ingress and you can see the cause here - crappy repairs to the sills that have rusted away.

In the space of 4 months, this forum has witnessed a car pass an MOT with relative ease only to be found to be not really worthy of the road after all. Daffodil will be such a solid car after Tom's finished with her so I am very happy to spend this money.
 


WP_20150114_005 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Tom said:
This is not my favourite one
Click to expand...

Tom had a few other choice quotes about poor Daffodil when I went to Lake View today.

I don't see why he should dislike this car - he's worked on much worse vehicles than this one and besides, he's quoted top dollar for the work.

Usually when I go to Lake View, I just grunt and agree with him - rusty bits all look the same and cost the same to me but I made a special effort to understand what he was showing me today because of the safety implications. I've made a choice to drive round in very old motor cars - it's all well and good that they are reliable cars but the safety of other road users is paramount.



WP_20150114_007 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The black rubber cone shaped object near the centre of the photo, between the wheel studs and the spring is a bump stop. I know that because I have bought a few of these over the years but it is the first time I've seen one in situ - for some reason I'd always envisaged them the other way up but it makes sense now I've seen it - I can see why you wouldn't want to go over a pothole with a bump stop missing.

The trailing arms (those words always strike terror in me - first major work on Ethel - £750) and the de Dion are all in good shape, which isn't so surprising because Daffodil has always been a very nice ride - indeed if she hadn't been a nice ride I wouldn't be bothering with all this work.

It's been a lesson, as if it were needed, that an MOT pass is no indication of a roadworthy vehicle - it just means that the brakes and the lights work and there are no bald tyres or wonky steering.

Scenes like this are easier for me to understand - there's a great big hole in the passenger footwell where Tom has cut away all the rotten bits and he is about to replace it with a new floor. He found four layers of repairs to the floor, some not even welded up.



WP_20150114_002 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Meanwhile, the salt on the roads is playing havoc with the Blue McFoo's scabby old doors - they are blistering in a bad way. Tom says that all the panels are shot on this car except for the front passenger door - and that apparently is an excellent door.



WP_20150114_015 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

We've just got a load of panels on the tobacco leaf donor car - the Blue McFoo was originally tobacco leaf and if/when I had her resprayed, it'd be in tobacco leaf. She'd still be called the Blue McFoo though - that wouldn't change even if the eponymous little blue Smurf who lives in the grille and faint plume of blue smoke vanished into a puff of, er smoke.
 
Tom’s elves have been busy in the night and a pair of reconditioned drive shafts await Daffodil’s arrival.



WP_20150131_001 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The elves have also stripped down Chewbacca’s engine for appraisal and reassembly. This engine is destined for the shiny green Rover in the quartet, Hildegarde (WXC426K).



WP_20150131_019 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Tom’s assessment of the engine is that the bottom end is in very good shape – all white metal and no bare copper which is unusual in these old engines, with the top end in a bad way.

The block won’t need an expensive regrind – instead the piston rings will be renewed and the cylinders honed to accommodate this.

The hydraulic tappets/cam followers are in a sorry state, as is the camshaft itself – even my inexperienced eye can see that at least one of the valves controlled by the camshaft would barely wiggle instead of opening and closing properly.



Worn out tappets by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

The first thing Tom said when I arrived today, apart from “Good morning, Chris”, was that Daffodil’s tappets were sounding rough. In fact compared to when the car was last out and about in November when it was a few degrees warmer, Daffodil’s tappets are relatively quiet but we always knew they were bad and with this in mind, Tom is giving me a double shopping list for both engines and they can both benefit from an uprated camshaft.

The Viper HURRICANE hydraulic camshaft – according to Real Steal, it is ideal for most applications, including automatic transmission is allegedly worth an extra 20hp over a standard camshaft. There’s a CYCLONE version for the same price – each more than double the price of a standard 3.5 camshaft but that might be a bit fruity for my purposes.

Ethel and The Blue McFoo both have the viper camshaft and the difference in the seat of the pants acceleration is very noticeable compared to the green cars; even though Daffodil's no pudding, I had my passenger's heart in his mouth when I casually overtook a car on the Alderley bypass with a car in sight coming the other way - no road user was ever in any danger for a fraction of a second but I've been driving the mean old Blue McFoo for a while - uprated camshaft and a ZF gearbox with a fierce kickdown that finds bottom cog at 55mph - a very different kettle of fish to Daffodil's squelchbox and worn camshaft.

If the cylinder block and cylinder head faces have not been heavily machined, and the valve guides are fitted to the correct length, then this cam should bolt straight in. In my experience - the extent of which means paying the bills, these engines don’t tend to be plug’n’play when the hardware is upgraded so I will brace myself for some whingeing – two engines, twice the scope for annoyances.

The lack of plug and play support and proness to driver incompatibity is why I don't go in for this kind of work pictured below - the customer of this car is having a 4.6 litre engine with a serpentine belt - the front cover of this Range Rover V8 is completely different and you can see where Tom has had to manufacture a bespoke engine mounting to allow for the different position of the oil filter.



WP_20150131_006 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr



WP_20150131_007 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Back to Daffodil’s immediate problem – Tom had prepared two driveshafts but on closer inspection, he only swapped the one on the offside – this is always the first one to fail for some reason. He suggested that the other driveshaft that powers the nearside rear wheel should be good for another few thousand miles at least and seeing that there are 4 cars in use, one of the others might need it first.



WP_20150131_011 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

That made sense to me and I could tell right away when I took Daffodil round the block for a test drive that the problem was cured – I thought that the driveshaft was just banging when moving in slow traffic but it was very noisy – “You don’t realise it until you have a silence to listen to”, was how Tom put it.

Tom’s cottoned on that I have really fallen for this car in a big way – I said to him today as he checked Daffodil for water ingress that if I could only keep two Rovers, it’d be the ones on the forecourt today – i.e. Ethel and Daffodil and he is starting to understand why. Ethel will always be top dog because she was the first car.

Daffodil drives so well and she has the nicest old car smell of them all. Sorry Ethel, sorry McFoo - even your real leather seats can't match that faint whiff of mustiness mixed in with leather scent from a bottle.



Checking for leaks by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

He never said anything but I could tell he was somewhat hurt and certainly very disappointed that I haven’t warmed to Hildegarde, in spite of his fine workmanship and effort. I’m sure he’s hoping that the replacement engine will win me over, and there’s every chance it will.

Meanwhile on Planet McFoo, either the pressure gauges at the local garages varies wildly or she has magical self inflating tyres. I put 32psi in at the Total on Chester Road way too long ago and thought it best to put some in yesterday. I set the pressure to 32 and put 50p in, only for the air machine start letting air out of the tyres – it said it was 34psi.

I knew this was rubbish so set the pressure to 36 and went round the car – they were all on 34 so they all got a puff of air to take it to 36 – I have no idea what the actual pressure is but they are all the same (which is the most important bit) and the drive feels right.



WP_20150130_003 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr
 
Good stuff... I knew chewbacca's engine sounded tight. The top end didnt sound noisy, but like we know they can sound fine and not be.... I'm guessing on such a low mileage engine it must be oil without zddp to cause cam issues like that.... (It's only done about 30000).

I dont know if any of chewbacca's body still exists but Rudiger was looking for the chassis number. If you can find it I know he'd be grateful, otherwise cant be helped!

Always good to read your adventures...
 
rockdemon said:
Good stuff... I knew chewbacca's engine sounded tight. The top end didnt sound noisy, but like we know they can sound fine and not be.... I'm guessing on such a low mileage engine it must be oil without zddp to cause cam issues like that.... (It's only done about 30000).

I dont know if any of chewbacca's body still exists but Rudiger was looking for the chassis number. If you can find it I know he'd be grateful, otherwise cant be helped!

Always good to read your adventures...
Click to expand...

Thanks.

We still have the log book at Lake View, even if the body has gone - and I suspect it might have because there was no sign of it today. I will ask Tom.

I assume that the engine was swapped out with the gearbox - Tom found that the gearbox was painted blue - he explained the significance of this and I should reckon this will be a fine gearbox.
 
rockdemon said:
what is the significance of blue?
Click to expand...

Apparently there were different colour codes back in the day - Tom is the same age as me at 45 but forgets that I didn't grow up in a garage like he did, so he said "You probably remember back in the 1970s there was blue seal, red seal, gold seal". Actually, no, Tom but I get the idea - I don't think that the blue colour was a top of the range swap unit but it the point is it will be a known good unit that has only done 30000 miles - as you know, the ATF is a nice healthy colour.
 
Slight change of plan.

After reading a thread about automatic gearboxes, I have decided that Hildegarde, the green vulture on the left, will never meet expectations with an old fashioned BW35 gearbox.



The Gruesome Twosome by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

I put two suggestions to Tom from Lake View

Option 1 – steal McFoo’s gearbox and compensate the Blue McFoo with the blue gearbox – advantage – no cost for gearbox, probably won’t lessen the value of the McFoo.

Option 2 – do engineering work on sourced gearbox as per spec of Blue McFoo as outlined by previous owner of The Blue McFoo.
Click to expand...

Tom replied

I agree.

Option 1 - Steal McFoo's gearbox and engine.

The box is known good. The engine is a later SD1, proper crank seal , later cylinder heads with stem seals.

I continue to refurbish the 10.5 engine at minimal cost. Fit this to McFoo with the BW35 box as per standard. Car is back on the road and no longer smokes.

Then overhaul SD1 engine to mild spec and fit to WXC with its ZF box.

End result will be a standard McFoo and Hildegarde will have performance to match the looks.

No need to source another ZF box.

Tom
Click to expand...

I assented, saying that a "standard McFoo" would still be very quick and the McFoo isn't the type to sulk or hold a grudge, adding that I wouldn't begrudge the McFoo a Viper camshaft, even though they are much dearer than a normal one.

Standard wheel trims will complete the new McFoo look and the standard gearbox will take away that nagging doubt about the flywheel vibration, which Tom will of course have fixed by the time it goes in WXC (Hildegarde).
 
catboy said:
Love the lower ride height, really suits the car.

You mention a ZF gearbox on one of your cars, is it 4speed?
Click to expand...

Thank you.



WP_20141118_002 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

Yes, BPH970H, known round these parts as The Blue McFoo, has a 4-speed ZF gearbox that was fitted by her previous owner - and the speedometer works too.

The Blue McFoo is gradually being returned to her original state - steering wheel, steel rims, maybe a respray back to tobacco leaf (she'd always be The Blue McFoo) and Ethel (ETR 290L) is next in line for the lowered right height treatment at Lake View.

Daffodil (DDF476L) has come from nowhere to running Ethel to the width of a cigarette paper to being my favourite car - she's getting an uprated camshaft but is staying stock apart from that.

WXC, as Tom and I agree, needs the ZF gearbox more than the McFoo does.
 
Tom's just condemned Chewbacca's engine.

I will keep this simple to reduce confusion.

Chewbacca's block is a coffee table.
As soon as I picked the bonnet up on that car I knew something was not right. New core plugs , new head gaskets drowned in sealer as I showed you. Someone , somewhere was chasing an overheating problem. I will not use this block. It looks like a cylinder liner problem.

Strip Lil's old engine. We know this is a good block even though the crash smashed the front cover and there is a broken stud to be removed. I will use this block.
Lil's old block has bore wear similar to Chewbacca's coffee table block. In a perfect world it still needs a re-bore and new pistons. But you can still fit new piston rings to the old pistons in the worn bores if you agree that there may , possibly be some oil burn after the refit.

rebore , pistons , rings est £500.00

just rings replaced £ 36.80

big difference.
Click to expand...

This follows on from his remarks of yesterday.

I see on the forum that this 10.5 engine has done 30k miles
Not possible. More like 130k +
After measuring the crank journals I finds its 10 thou undersize. Its been reground , hence the good condition.
The rest of the wear now makes sense.
I will hone the bores this afternoon as to make sure the block is serviceable.
Click to expand...
 
rockdemon said:
ouch :( Obviously been swapped in then....
Click to expand...

No moans though - it goes with the territory. Find me an engine that hasn't been dicked with or neglected or both - they tend to be in good running cars.


I think that is a no-brainer - piston rings it is for Lil's engine - I never thought that would ride again but Tom knows what he is doing.

Besides, coffee tables are not a bad thing - we have been known to do a sideline at Lake View although not for many years.



06122009785 by EthelRedThePetrolHead, on Flickr

I have already been given a shopping list for two engines - the Lil engine and the Daffodil engine.

10.5:1 engine to be installed into McFoo requires

camshaft viper hurricane DW262 On consideration I think this shall be a standard camshaft at half the cost - sorry McFoo
cam followers AZ794-16
cam sprocket chain kit AZ770
oil pump high volume kit AZ844
Piston rings DW884
Top end gasket set AZ884HC5
Bottom gasket set AZ884C
Rear crank seal AZ704

DDF requires

camshaft viper hurricane DW262
cam followers AZ794-16
cam sprocket chain kit AZ770
oil pump high volume kit AZ844
inlet manifold gasket CX7590
end seals CX2684 x2
water pump gasket CX1104
timing cover gasket CX2144
Click to expand...


That shopping list comes to £703.73 with two viper camshafts.

My classic teeth are also undergoing restoration so The Blue McFoo will have to settle for an ordinary camshaft - sorry about that, old girl.

Tom said:
Build engine for McFoo
Install with std bw35 box
Car is back on the road.

When I have investigated the SD1 engine from Smokey McFoo I will know what's required.
Would be nice to get Daffodil cam done first so you have 75% of the fleet operational while I create an engine for WXC.
Click to expand...

If you aren't thouroughly confused by all this then you don't understand a thing about old Rovers.
 
Top Trumps



Now and how they should hopefully look by the end of the year.
 

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