1966 SC - Rebekah!

[vaultsman]

Couple of weeks on and off spent cleaning and Hammeriting suspension and steering bits while I cast around for decently-priced bearing shells. There seems to be quite a few sets around on ebay etc. for early engines and, as expected, mainly in 10 and 20 thou undersizes. Might have to take the plunge and have the crank reground anyway! :roll:

Anyway, picked up a later gearbox from ebay for the grand sum of 99p that apparently ran noisy in neutral...

...and thought I'd have a delve.

The box was (allegedly) from a 1971 TC and has the serial number 436171 38A. Anybody see any problems if I used this box? The remote arrangement is slightly different to the...

...original box...

...but looks as if it'll go in OK.

The rear mainshaft and front layshaft bearings seem a little rough so that could be the cause of the noise. The gears look fine though and seem to mesh very well.

That's the early type of release bearing sleeve, and can only be used in conjunction with the early pressure plate that has the pad on the fingers. If you want to use the later pressure plate you'll need to get the later sleeve with the rounded front.

As per the pic before last, this box does have the rounded release sleeve.

 

[Demetris]

Now that you have it apart, it is well worth to change all bearings and even the synchro rings if you can find a set. Then set all the clearances as per manual and it will be quiet with excellent shift quality. It's almost 45,000 Km since i did this to my gearbox and it goes from strength to strength.

I believe there is no problem using the late gearchange system. However, if you are concerned about originality, you can swap the top cover and gearchange systems. You could even use the early casing with the internals of the late box. The mainshaft on the early box has bushes that are a source of problems in comparison with the bearings of the late box. You can also use the synchro rings of the early box if they are considerably better than the ones on the late box.

Demetris

 

[vaultsman]

Many thanks Demetris,

I've now got all the bearings specced up and an email sent to our friendly bearing supplier at work!

Having had a practice run on this box I'll strip the original box and have a good look and comparison between the innards of the two. I'm not overly concerned about originality in this area - I just want a quiet and slick box when it (eventually!) goes back in.

Cheers,

 

[harveyp6]

You can use the late remote without any problems. Don't use new synchros, they're cr*p, (don't ask me how I know!) use the best ones from the two boxes you have. Front mainshaft bearings are readily available, the only place I've found that has rear ones is JRW, at £75+p&p+VAT each. A lot of firms sell a bearing with a sleeve on the inner track to make it fit. THESE DO NOT WORK!
Do not fit a spring washer the the reverse idler shaft retaining plate bolt.

 

[vaultsman]

You can use the late remote without any problems. Don't use new synchros, they're cr*p, (don't ask me how I know!) use the best ones from the two boxes you have. Front mainshaft bearings are readily available, the only place I've found that has rear ones is JRW, at £75+p&p+VAT each. A lot of firms sell a bearing with a sleeve on the inner track to make it fit. THESE DO NOT WORK!
Do not fit a spring washer the the reverse idler shaft retaining plate bolt.

Thanks Harvey,

The retaining plate for the reverse idler shaft didn't have a spring washer fitted so I won't put one on when I put it back together...what happens if you do then? Does it foul? Or work loose?

Thanks for the tip on the cones. I'll have a good look at them all once I've stripped the original box

The rear mainshaft bearing that came out is an MJ-1-1/8" (or RMS9 in even older money). Still readily available from stockists, such as >Bearing Station<. I'm hoping to get it a bit cheaper than this.

The layshaft rear bearing is CFL7A in SKF-speak, but there's an RHP equivalent LRJA-7/8" which (I think) is still available...I'll update once I get a reply from our bearing supplier.

Cheers,

 

[harveyp6]

The retaining plate for the reverse idler shaft didn't have a spring washer fitted so I won't put one on when I put it back together...what happens if you do then? Does it foul? Or work loose?

Thanks for the tip on the cones. I'll have a good look at them all once I've stripped the original box

The rear mainshaft bearing that came out is an MJ-1-1/8" (or RMS9 in even older money). Still readily available from stockists, such as >Bearing Station<. I'm hoping to get it a bit cheaper than this.

The layshaft rear bearing is CFL7A in SKF-speak, but there's an RHP equivalent LRJA-7/8" which (I think) is still available...I'll update once I get a reply from our bearing supplier.

Cheers,

Fitting a washer to that bolt raises the head so much that the rear housing hits it, and distorts and leaks when you tighten it up.

You may well find that although "Bearing Station" list the correct bearing, when it arrives it will be a different bearing, the same od and width, but with a sleeve fitted to the inside so that it is the right size for the mainshaft. This may work for other applications, but won't work in this one. Be sure to let me know, as I ended up buying the last one I needed through JRW, and it hurt!

 

[vaultsman]

Fitting a washer to that bolt raises the head so much that the rear housing hits it, and distorts and leaks when you tighten it up.

Yes, having had a look I can see that'll happen. Good tip H.

You may well find that although "Bearing Station" list the correct bearing, when it arrives it will be a different bearing, the same od and width, but with a sleeve fitted to the inside so that it is the right size for the mainshaft. This may work for other applications, but won't work in this one. Be sure to let me know, as I ended up buying the last one I needed through JRW, and it hurt!

Never had a bearing supplied with an inner sleeve like that, and if I had I would've rejected it...not acceptable in any application to my mind. Should get a reply from our bearing supplier tomorrow re price, but for now it might be worth asking these sellers if their bearings are sleeved or not...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIUMPH-MAIN-...-1591-UK-/130387373193?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MJ-1-1-8-RMS9...6-x13-16-/370248141976?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts

Being RHP, I'd very much doubt if the first one is.

Cheers Harvey,

 

[harveyp6]

Keep me updated please. We ordered up several from different places, all of whom were adamant they had the right bearing, and they all arrived incorrect or with sleeves. JRW was the only one who had it. That said, we didnt go through two-wheeld applications, but that was the number we ordered.

 

[Demetris]

When i rebuilt mine 2 years ago, only Rover Classics had a last rear mainshaft bearing left. The price was reasonable, but somehow it has been lost in the post. I had no alternative, so i reused the old one. It wasn't too bad anyway.

As for the synchros, i used the set that came in the already rebuilt old style box that i bought with the new engine. So far, they work nicely, so they must have been old stock.

Demetris

 

[testrider]

Hi Stan,

Good to see you getting on well with this project so soon. When you said you fancied a go at a proper restoration I didn't know you were planning to go so in depth.

Are the rear suspension components coming up alright with Hammerite and did you just wire brush them first?

 

[vaultsman]

Hi Stan,

Good to see you getting on well with this project so soon. When you said you fancied a go at a proper restoration I didn't know you were planning to go so in depth.

Are the rear suspension components coming up alright with Hammerite and did you just wire brush them first?

Hi Paul,

To be honest, I'm feeling a bit stalled while I'm looking round at main & big-end bearing shell options, but at least the gearbox is getting there!

I'm replacing all the UJ's while I'm at it...and what a game it was getting 3 of the half-shaft ones out! Wouldn't respond to the tried and tested way, even with a good heat-up, so I had to cut them out. :roll:
-------------------------
With a good, heavy, rotary wire brush, everything seems to be coming up OK. A sample...

Haven't done the rear lower links yet as the rear bushes need changing, nor the elbows which are going to need a spot of welding. Unless anyone has a good pair going? :?:

Cheers,

 

[vaultsman]

Keep me updated please. We ordered up several from different places, all of whom were adamant they had the right bearing, and they all arrived incorrect or with sleeves. JRW was the only one who had it. That said, we didnt go through two-wheeld applications, but that was the number we ordered.

You have a PM Harvey.

 

[testrider]

Stan, had that trailing arm been ground down to remove the bushing or has the wheel/de dion elbow fallen off at some point?

 

[vaultsman]

Stan, had that trailing arm been ground down to remove the bushing or has the wheel/de dion elbow fallen off at some point?

Hi Paul,

The damage is bad enough, but to think somebody refitted it in that state... :roll:

Harvey had it right...I think the elbow let go at some point and the spring forced the arm down onto the road.

See my thread in the Wanted section...
http://www.classicroverforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8299

Cheers,

 

[vaultsman]

Hi all,

After fitting new bearings, I'm in the process of reassembling the later gearbox.

The layshaft on this box is fixed by a setbolt and plain washer, whereas the earlier box uses a castellated nut and split pin. My WM is dated 1967 and refers to tightening the castellated nut to 50 lbs. ft.

Question is - how tight should the later version be? Does it need threadlocking?

Also, the WM states there should be definite fore and aft movement on the layshaft before tightening. How much movement should there be? I can barely feel anything, and I'm sure all the bearings are seated right.

 

[vaultsman]

OK...so on with the box rebuild...

No expert but the synchro cones seemed in great nick...
Gear tolerances checked, mainshaft reassembled and installed with the layshaft...

Re my previous post here, 50 lbs.ft. is about max anyway for 7/16" UNF so I went with that plus a dose of Loctite Threadlock...

Casing assembled...

Selector shafts and forks...

(Then realised I needed to ease the oil seals forward to avoid interference! )

Adjusting overtravel...

Reverse switch fitted, reverse and top gear stops set.

All I need is a snub rubber now! Plus clutch withdrawal mech fitted...and new bushes on the remote extension...then on with the engine! :roll:

 

[vaultsman]

OK...feel I'm getting somewhere now!

Crank's had a regrind and I picked it up today...-20 thou on mains on -10 thou on big ends. I'll be catching you up soon now Phil! :wink:

I managed to find a good source of Glacier shells at very good prices.

http://www.cpearsonpistons.co.uk/index2.html

Clive was very helpful and has a few sheds full of NOS bearings, pistons, valves, seals, etc...well worth a call if you're looking.

===============================
For reference the Glacier codes are:

Mains M5246SA (for engine suffix G and later - all 5 pairs of shells are oil grooved. Earlier engines are M5211SA and have plain shells at the centre bearing)

Big Ends B4434SA

Thrust Washers W2087L

Small Ends S4575L

Camshaft C6004S

 

[testrider]

OK...feel I'm getting somewhere now!

How come you're doing all the fun stuff first, what the plan for the bodywork?

You've got all those nice shiney parts and nothing to mount them on yet!

 

[vaultsman]

What bodywork? :wink:

Plan is to get all the mechanical stuff done over this autumn & winter as time (and cash) permit...then spring will be fettling the bodywork. Summer to put it all back together...in time for the RP6C National next year!

Or do I really mean 2012? :roll:

 

[cdnp6]

Nice pictures of your project! Looks like things are coming along!
If it's not to much trouble, can you point out where on the top cover the breather hole is?
My project has been leaking gear oil from near the top of the box over the summer and a blocked breather hole has been suggested as a cause.
Thanks