BW65 auto gearbox does not shift to third gear on Rover P6 3500

#21
Hi
Here is what I tested on the road. Adjusting the cable has a clear effect i would say, although the previously described behaviour of the gears didn't change, so unfortunately still no TOP gear.
But what changed is:
-Kickdown still functions but comes in very late. I really have to push the throttle almost full down. The positive side is that i can push the throttle more to accelerate without kickdown coming in.
-When in D to shift from 1-2 i still have to release the throttle a bit, otherwise it doesnt shift. But i feel it is less than before.
-When putting the gear from neutral to D and also to R it is a bit smoother when it engages. I think that also may have to do with putting the idle speed a little bit down.

I still hear the clonk sound a bit when i release the throttle, when slowly driving in second gear.
Could it be the pressures are still too high?
What effect does the transmission fluid have? It has never been changed after standing unused for a long time.
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#22
You should have to push the throttle all the way to the floor for it to kickdown. It does sound as if the pressures are still too high, so you could try adjusting it some more, but you should be able to prompt the upshift by lifting off the throttle, especially now that you have lowered the pressures, (even though they would still appear to be too high). The more you lower the pressures, without getting TOP then (if you have no problems with REVERSE) the more it sounds like the governor is sticking.

I wouldn't worry about the fluid if it looks and smells OK.
 
#23
Thanks again.
Ok, I will try to lower the pressures a bit more, but based on your info I am also quite sure now that I need to work on the governor. Without any experience in that area, but we will see.
I get back with my next results.
 
#24
Hello
I didnt lower the pressure further yet. I had a look under the car. Before I start to work on the governor, I have some questions regarding accessing the governor. I can't find a lot about the governor in the WM and also not very clear in the BW65 manual, from my perspective.
1. You talked about removing the rear flange of the propshaft. Do I need to remove it only at the side of the gearbox or also at the end of the car, so completely remove the propshaft?
2. WHen i than remove the mounting while supporting the gearbox, will i then see 4 screws which i need to rmove to access the governor?
3. What happens when I remove these 4 screws? Is someting falling out accidently?
4. How can I see if the valve is sticking or damaged or can i just take it out somehow?

A lot of questions I know but really dont know what to expect and as said can't find a lot of documentation about it.
THanks in advance.
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#25
I think you'll probably have to remove the prop completely, but I can't remember for certain. Then you need undo the prop flange bolt (put the box into PARK) then support the rear of the gearbox and remove the mounting. Disconnect the speedo cable. Once those are done you need to look at the gasket between the tailshaft housing and the main case, there should be 5 or 6 bolts retaining it. Slide the flange out, and remove the housing. Some of those bolts are Bi-hex. (12 sided) Nothing will fall out when you remove the housing, unless something has fallen apart inside.
Once the housing is removed you will see the governor and the speedo drive gear. You just slide the speedo gear off the shaft. The governor has a specially shaped top which you undo to be able to slide the governor off the shaft. Note that the spring washer under that top is not fully compressed. When refitting make sure you fit the geovernor the right way around, with the fluid exhaust facing to the rear. Then you can dismantle and inspect the governor.
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#26
All you could try before dismantling, is to disconnect the cable and then run the car up to speed on a very light throttle and see if you can get it to upshift that way. Light throttle only though otherwise you risk burning out the clutches.
 
#27
All you could try before dismantling, is to disconnect the cable and then run the car up to speed on a very light throttle and see if you can get it to upshift that way. Light throttle only though otherwise you risk burning out the clutches.
Ok this sounds more easy as a next step first. I will try this first!
 
#28
Ok this sounds more easy as a next step first. I will try this first!
Hi Harveyp6
I adjusted the downshiftcable quite a bit more. Now it shifts up on a light throttle from 1-2 without releasing the throttle anymore, so it really gets better. Still no TOP gear however. KIckdown when pushing the throttle full down works.
I think i am running to the end of the adjustment. Maybe I can do a bit more, but not sure if it can still have an effect on TOP gear. What do you suggest
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
#29
If you continue to adjust the cable, then as long as you still have the kickdown function you should be fine, and adjusting the cable is a lot easier than removing and dismantling the governor, especially if it isn't the governor at fault. (Although the longer this goes on with no TOP, the more likely it is to be a sticky governor).
 
#30
If you continue to adjust the cable, then as long as you still have the kickdown function you should be fine, and adjusting the cable is a lot easier than removing and dismantling the governor, especially if it isn't the governor at fault. (Although the longer this goes on with no TOP, the more likely it is to be a sticky governor).
Hi
I adjusted the cable again and roadtested again.I think the car shifts from 1-2 now as it should do. I have another (modern) automatic car and that behaves very similar, regarding throttle behaviour. Just the P6 doesn't want to go to TOP gear. KIckdown is still working, but really have to put the throttle to the floor.
Conclusion: I think i can't avoid working on the governor. But with your previous descriptions I hope i am able to manage :)
 
#31
I started working to get to the governor. FIrst I needed to undo the propshaft. See attached pictures.
I unbolted the 4 lock nuts of the flange at the gearbox, which were very hard to get loose.
Inside the propshaft is a spring, which holds the propshaft in place even if the lock nuts are taken out.
To get the propshaft out of the flange I used a strap with a lever to draw the propshaft together, in fact shorten the spring.
Then the propshaft got out. The pictures show the tailhousing and external mounting of the gearbox.
 

Attachments

#33
I've never seen a spring inside the sliding joint in all the clutches, gearboxes, autoboxes and pinion seals I've done...
The spring is in the propshaft or maybe i use the wrong word. To get the propshaft out of the flange I needed to pull it together, there was too much tension towards the flange. It is a mechanism with some grease nipples.
It is on the second picture with the strap. The right side of the propshaft.
 
#37
My advice would be to get rid of the spring.

Your English is good, and far better than my Dutch!
Haha you can try a few words if you like. What do you mean with get rid of the spring? Replace the propshaft with another one? I am not sure if it is a spring inside. It is a mechanism which needs grease apparently and keeps the propshaft in position even if the lock nuts are out. Do you think it is not original? It is a 1974 export P6, I think for the german market but not 100% sure.
 
#38
There should not be a spring inside. If there is, remove it and don't put it back. The propshaft will be good without it, every other one I've seen has been. The sliding joint should be free to slide. Note that there are alignment arrows on the short yoke and the tube which must be in line with each other. When they are the universal joints are not in line with each other.
 
#39
There should not be a spring inside. If there is, remove it and don't put it back. The propshaft will be good without it, every other one I've seen has been. The sliding joint should be free to slide. Note that there are alignment arrows on the short yoke and the tube which must be in line with each other. When they are the universal joints are not in line with each other.
Ok, what about the grease nipples that are there? Have you ever seen them? I see this all for the first time. i think it is a kind of pressure mechanism. I am not sure if it will be so easy to remove it. I need to have a look at it.
 
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