Oil Pump Removal and Upgrade Kit

GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#42
An easy reassembly compared to all the dismantling of the motor .
This would be a no brainer if you had your engine on a bench .
So easy , although having said that I may try another shim as the cog movement is binding in one place .
Oil may improve its movement .
This is only a dummy run . Don't want oil in there yet .
Dumb ass left the petroleum grease behind anyway . This is to pack into the cogs before assembly - pre prime .
Doh !!
Tomorrow now . Its a cut lunch and water bottle into town .
I'll paint my car bits instead .
Gerald
 

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#43
Re: Oil Pump Removal

Water pump to timing cover gasket should be the same as the standard one. I can't see why it wouldn't be and several cars have had a standard pump fitted in place of the viscous type without drama. If it is different (i'd love to see a pic) you can always make one yourself from gasket paper from Repco or similar.
 

GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#44
Not a problem now Al
You are right though re " no difference in the gaskets "

Had a chat to Bygone and he has some in stock . I'll pick one up next time Im over that way .
I'll see if I can get some up close pics of that P6 Racer of his . Im sure there would be some interest on here for some photos of that amazing beast . Last time I looked it was on a hoist tucked up out of the way .

Top of the Range has a timing cover casket for me too .
No big rush for the gaskets as the farm has been neglected long enough and a few things need more urgent attention than the P6.

Meanwhile the pressure relief valve spring in the oil pump now has a stronger one installed . A bit thicker and longer than the original , if you can pick it up in the photo .
Gerald
 

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stina

New Member
#45
Hi Gerald .
Nice going , your moving along well :D Was the oil pump shaft easy to remove , did it need much cleaning up to get it out ? When i did mine the gears binded up on the spacer plate however i aligned it on the trial fit . I relieved it a touch with a round file , but don't tell anyone :wink: What relief spring are you fitting ? The kit warns against anything other than a new standard pressure item ! :D
 

GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#46
Hello Stina
The oil pump shaft was shellacked a bit , but it flaked off rather easily . No resistance in the shaft housing when I withdrew it - all good .
I haven't really looked into the "binding " issue with the cogs yet . Using a screwdriver on the shaft end and its free for half a turn- the other half turn and its quite stiff - does complete the rotation though . I wouldn't like to see the distributor trying to do it . No oil in there either , so it could be that .
So did you file down the spacer plate ? Thats illegal nowadays you now . I guess filing the spacer plate a little would make sense - not the cog .Silly me .
Ive got to do some fine tweaking but I'm sure its nothing a 5lb hammer can't sort if it goes pear shaped and I spit the dummy .
I threw it together towards the end of the day just to see what it looked like . Wasn't expecting miracles .

The relief spring is from Bygone Autos -the fella that races that orange flying P6 that has been the subject of much adoration on here . He is a haven for P6b engine bits . Enlighten me with using the wrong spring as it took a lot of pressure to get the blighter back in and screwed up , And that's off the motor . I was thinking at the time WTF , this is not normal .

With you guys guiding me I feel quietly confident .
In fact from reading other forumers adventures I feel rather brave , especially pulling the front of the engine off in situ . Going into territory Ive never been before .
regards
Gerald
 

stina

New Member
#47
Hi Gerald . ( You brave Man you ! )
Yes i "tidied up" the spacer plate a little with a file as no amount of aligning would see it run clear of the gears . Lets keep it in context though i only "touched" it up a thou or so to give clearance , i didn't go at it like a mad thing ( don't tell anyone on here though :wink: )
As for using the standard spring , although some wont have it said the kit is high pressure as well as high volume , if you force a bigger volume of oil through the same hole you will get higher pressure . If you couple this with a higher pressure spring you can end up developing more pressure than the oil pump drive can handle . The standard spring keeps the pressure in check . I have probably opened a can of worms now , but i hate you to have to take it all apart again down the line .
I have heard of cases of it happening , ask the boys on the V8 forum if you don't believe me , so there :lol:
 

unstable load

Well-Known Member
#48
Re: Oil Pump Removal and timing chain

[quote="GRTV8" My only concern is all those setting rebates in the metal may make the cogs a little under strength . The original P6b one will have the correct cogs with one rebate in each .[/quote]
The extra keyways won't be an issue as far as strength of the gear is concerned.
They are there to allow for various pre-set advance/retard options on the cam dependant
on what you want to do with it, performance wise.
I'd fit the dual chain, personally.
 

stina

New Member
#49
Agree John .
But when someone has made a decision it's hard to argue the logic .
Personally , and with hindsight the gears i used were overkill for the situation i've used them in , although they wont do any harm :wink:
I would go for this if their is a next time
http://www.v8tuner.co.uk/product.php?id=97

Disregarding the above . Gerald got over a hundred K out of the original timing set , so obviously he's not a thrasher , he should get another 100 K out of this set :D
 
#50
What timing chain you fit depends on the depth of your pockets amongst other things ! I'm tight and when I did mine I used the basic stuff
I think that oil seal has been fitted back to front - the "open" side with spring visible should be facing into the engine
 

stina

New Member
#51
DaveHerns said:
What timing chain you fit depends on the depth of your pockets amongst other things ! I'm tight and when I did mine I used the basic stuff
I think that oil seal has been fitted back to front - the "open" side with spring visible should be facing into the engine
i've just studied the pis Dave , and i think your wrong , as much as you'd like to be right the seal is in the right way :wink:
 

mrtask

Well-Known Member
#52
Sorry to go a bit off topic, but what is the big round thing above the suspension swing arm in this photo? Something to do with the air conditioning system?
 

GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#54
stina said:
DaveHerns said:
What timing chain you fit depends on the depth of your pockets amongst other things ! I'm tight and when I did mine I used the basic stuff
I think that oil seal has been fitted back to front - the "open" side with spring visible should be facing into the engine
i've just studied the pis Dave , and i think your wrong , as much as you'd like to be right the seal is in the right way :wink:
You guys are killing me
I had to ring my poor L/Rover man whom I got it off . Twice , just to confirm I wasn't putting it in wrong . Thats how paranoid I get . A bit of OCD in me . Spring to to the back i.e. facing into the engine .
Its hard to tell once that oil thrower is back in place .
Anyway if Im out voted I can change it around as nothing is bolted up onto the block yet .
Im still painting my way through all those little and big bits .
Gerald .
 

GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#55
Ive got three new springs to play with , each a different strength -courtesy of Bygone Autos . Plus his capillary oil gauge to check against each spring .
When the pump is back and operational on the engine I'll start with the new but standard one and work my way through the three higher tensile ones [ if thats the word ] - just to be on the safe side .
Thanks for the warning though Stina - I hadn't considered I would be putting in a spring that could be a problem child .
regards
Gerald
 

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GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#56
I am feeling really pleased - Ive found the problem to the new cogs binding against something when the head is tightened down .
I definitely need another or thicker gasket in there .
The new cogs run freely with the pump head off . No binding against the steel spacer .
I haven't cleaned up the pump head yet , so I can see where the new cogs are scraping .
I don't have to commit an illegal act like Stina did and file the new spacer into submission .

Isn't it weird how the same kit presents different problems in different cars ?

Do I need to use a sealant between the gaskets on the pump ?

Im in my happy place now .

Gerald
 

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stina

New Member
#57
Good going Gerald .
I did ask you not to disclose my illegal act on the spacer plate though :( :lol:
Yeah i had to play around with different gasket thicknesses to achieve the correct end float on the gears . I think i ended up with standard rover gaskets above and below the spacer plate , the kit supplied ones being too thin .
This has just reminded me of another heads up for you . When (i think it was Testrider ? ) did his their is a hole in the original gaskets that sometimes isn't properly duplicated in the kit ones . Check that it is there ( against the original ) and cut it out if not as it block the flow and build up pressure in the system and blow the filter seal out .
No sealant on the gaskets :wink: :D
 

GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#58
Oh Er
Now that was my next question - are you a little psychic - that blanked off area on both gaskets that came with the kit .
Bit odd I thought .
I'll see to it with a modelling knife and put the gasket goo back in the drawer
Thanks so much
regards
Gerald
 

stina

New Member
#59
Yeah i'm not sure why that is , as it turned out i didn't end up using the kit gaskets , you will need to do a bit of accurate measuring with the feeler gauges to get the correct end float , so as the cover's not too tight to the gears . We might need a bit of input from one of the better qualified engineer types on here now :?: I can't remember the running tolerance , and the one specified for the kit , ( or even if it's different than standard ? )
 
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